Each episode of De Taali — Life of a Transgender, hosted by Fida Khan, curated and produced by Shameer Tandon, unravels and educates the listeners about different facets of the lives of transgenders. This is done through conversations with guests from varied backgrounds, including medicine, literature, the transgender community, and more. By Ayushi Sharma
We breathe the same air, eat the same food and feel the same way. You might say we are all equal, right? Unfortunately, that’s far from the truth. There are many communities that are treated differently, unequally, and at times even harshly. One such community is that of transgenders, the world’s third gender. While some progress has been made to improve their social situation, there are many real-world truths and stories we are unaware of. Stories of what the community faces every day and realities that many of us can’t relate to.
To increase awareness around the community of transgenders, Spotify has launched a new original podcast for India that highlights the unexplored lives of the country’s third gender. Each episode of De Taali — Life of a Transgender, hosted by Fida Khan, curated and produced by Shameer Tandon, unravels and educates the listeners about different aspects of the lives of transgenders through conversations with guests from varied backgrounds, including medicine, literature, the transgender community, and more.
Excerpts of the interview:
How was the podcast first conceptualised?
Shameer Tandon: After the success of Pioneer Six Pack, a musical band, which we created a couple of years ago, we realised that the natural extension would be to do a lot of live events across the world. Then we thought that we should do something on mainstream media to reach out to a larger audience. We had to stay ahead of the curve, so we thought that a podcast would be a great idea as it is a medium where one can put out one’s thoughts without worrying about what one wants to actually say because it’s more of a conversational format. That’s how it was conceived. The first season is already out with five episodes. Another five are on their way.
Do you think the decriminalisation of homosexuality has opened the doors for several changes to be introduced like marriage, medical, adoption and inheritance laws for the LGBTQ+ community?
Fida Khan: Decriminalisation happened on September 6, 2018 and it is only on papers till now. Zameeni haqiqat se inka koi vaasta nahi hai (It has nothing to do with the on-ground reality). I know this because I belong to that community. I can still recall the fight we started five years ago. Like there are ashrams for women, old age groups and orphans, we asked the government for the same for transgenders like me. They suffer more than anybody in the world. Being disowned by their own families and harsh treatment from the society leads to their so called ‘bad’ behaviour. Lack of access to basic rights often forces them to beg and engage in paid sex work. It takes a lot of courage for trans people to come to terms with who they are.
In our country, people usually mock and harass them which makes their life hell. It happens because of a deep rooted patriarchal mindset of people. There is a stigma attached to it. All this explains the level of discrimination prevailing in this society. All that they lack are some basic human rights. They desire nothing that the society can’t provide them. I feel, asking for a shelter is not a very major thing to do. It’s been five years and still we have got nothing. If decriminalisation would have made a difference, we would have been successful in getting something as basic as an ashram.
The podcast seems to talk about various aspects of the life of trans people. One being that there are not enough opportunities for them when it comes to healthcare, education or other skill-based tasks. Lack of accurate representation in Indian pop culture and stereotypical portrayal exist even today. What do you think is the way forward?
Fida: We don’t have to do much. Gradually, the government is actually catering to things that we as a community require. However, everything exists only on papers and not in reality. I believe that even if they start working today on the ground level, everything can just be fine. The change might actually come only if the things on paper are also done in reality. Gender-sensitisation should work in parallel with legal reform. Also, people still believe in stereotypes and refuse to give jobs to trans people. A well-educated transgender Indian is as capable and deserving to take up significant jobs as any other cisgender Indian. You have to fight for your rights because nobody else is going to do it for you.
When I was hosting this podcast, an idea popped up in my mind. You know how a child learns ABCD... as he grows and he remembers that until he dies... so why don't teach them about trans people just like they are taught about the other two genders? Childhood is a great time, without doubt to develop their values and habits, which can define them for the rest of their lives. If proper values are taught to children, they will surely be able to apply them when they grow up. More stories surrounding transgenders can be added in their books. Won’t they learn better and keep it in their minds forever? We would certainly face lesser questions. It would eventually lead to a better world that would live and grow with us, knowing that we are also a part of humankind.
Judicial reform is one thing but social realities don’t shift in an instant. How do you think people are ready to take this change ahead?
Fida: While many people treat transgenders as lesser than humans, there are some people who are brave enough to fight for their rights day and night. There are some trans people too, who have made their way into the mainstream, achieved their goals and proved that we are as capable and deserving as any other Indian. Fighting for issues like lack of legal protection, poverty, harassment and stigma, anti-transgender violence, identity documents (a barrier to healthcare for people belonging to trans-community) is my fearless grandmother, Salma Khan. She is the first trans-woman in the three-member panel of Mumbai’s District Suburban Legal Services Authority. Ours is a backward society which is devoid of its basic rights. But I am glad that people like Laxmi Narayan Tripathi, Joyita Mondal, Gauri Sawant, are constantly trying to break the social stigma and making it big by uplifting the community.
How do you think podcasts, films, books around such sensitive topic would help people to understand the community better?
Fida: Until and unless you know the truth, how will you react to it? Through this podcast, we want to convey who transgenders actually are. There are too many misconceptions and myths in people’s mind. The initiative is to show them the right thing and remove those myths.
Recently, I was on The Kapil Sharma Show, its video went viral on YouTube. I saw somebody’s comment there — “Here she is talking so nicely. You should see the way they behave on a train.” This is the exact mindset that we want to change through the podcast so that people know about the challenges we face just because we have a different gender. We are born the same, we feel the same pain, we are humans too!
Shameer: This podcast deals with the details of life of transgender, especially in the Indian cultural context. We are hoping that there might be a paradigm shift in the mindset of people, who will listen to it as they will understand their way of life. When they get disowned by their own families, their basic thought process says, “if my family didn’t accept me, how will the society?” In the initial years, we faced a lot of difficulty in gaining their trust. Fida very well pointed that — inko cheezein maangne se hi milti hai. But our idea was to give them legitimacy through a platform for singing, speaking and doing all of that. So it took time but now we are absolutely aligned and in sync.
When anybody asks me what was the biggest challenge in bringing this piece together? It was definitely winning their faith! When a community has faced centuries of oppression and suppression, then things don’t change within a click or get better overnight. It takes time. We met approximately 200 trans people about five years ago. Out of them, we picked up beautiful stories of six of them.
In the time of global crisis like this, how do you think podcast will work the best for the audience?
Shameer: When people are homebound, they resort to digital options. With the announcement of lockdown amid the pandemic of Covid-19, I think it’s a great option for people to just listen to such positive stories, which normally they wouldn't have time for.
Can you share some anecdotes?
Fida: I just want people to know that we have seen and done a lot in our lives. But it never really made a difference to my life. I want to point out to the jobs we have and that we shouldn’t be neglected as we are transgenders. We shouldn’t be judged on the basis of our gender but rather, on our capability.
