Filmmaker Meghna Gulzar is quickly emerging as a sensitive story-teller of complex human realities. Post her exposition of a counter-narrative in the Arushi murder case through Talvar, she is now presenting the story of a Kashmiri woman spy who marries a Pakistani military officer as part of a RAW mission. The contemporary resonance is not lost given the youth unrest in the Valley and the Kashmiri girl’s pledge to hold up the honour of her country before all else. But Meghna focusses entirely on the human condition. So Sehmat is not a femme fatale but a fragile Indian woman who finds her strength. In a conversation with Rinku Ghosh, she shares her craft, creative funding of films and her illustrious parents
When did you read the novel Calling Sehmat by Harinder Sikka and when did the idea come to tell the story nowIJ
I was working on a couple of other subjects after the release of Talvar. In the course of 2016, this book and story came to me twice through different producers. First time, it was Preeti Sahani of Junglee Pictures. She said she was trying to acquire the rights and asked me if I would be happy to direct the film. Of course, I agreed instantly as it was a very powerful story. I hadn’t read the book then, she had just told me the brief outline of the story. Neither did the talks materialise with the author. A couple of months later, another production house approached me and it turned out to be the same book. That is when I met the author for the first time and read the book. Again, talks between the author and the production house didn’t work out. By that time, the author and I had developed a rapport and he said, ‘I don’t know who is going to produce it but I am certain I want you to direct it.’ I said, ‘If you trust me with the material, let me develop a story out of it and take it to a studio.’ We had an undertaking between us and I developed a story out of it with my writer. I took it back to Junglee pictures because it was morally the right thing to do. By that time, it was December 2016 when Junglee pictures formally bought the rights to the book and we had our first draft by February. Then the second production house approached me but I had already met Alia and had given her a verbal narration till then. As soon as I read the book, I knew only she could do it because she matched the character, her age, her physicality and fragility. Besides, she could deliver the level of performance that I needed to a T. I told her that I didn’t have a script but I wanted to know if I could write with her in my mind as the character. And her prompt reply was, “absolutely.” The minute I had the script, it was time to go back to her and she formally came on board. Karan Johar and I were already talking about working together and this seemed like the perfect opportunity.
What is Raazi’s contemporary relevance in the India-Pakistan contextIJ
When I decided to make the film, I didn’t even think about the context or the relevance in today’s time. When I made Talvar too, there was no pressing reason to pull up a story eight years later. But there was a counter-narrative and unanswered questions that I found very interesting in terms of human complexity. So, I don’t really look at any kind of messaging or statement. Neither am I drawing from prevailing situations realistically. let me clarify that Raazi is not a one-dimensional story about India and Pakistan. There are a lot of grey areas and human conflicts that are my driving force. How it becomes relevant to society is by the process in the choice of stories that I want to do. But I can say this, that the ideals and principles of the protagonist are hard to stick by in contemporary times but the fragile-looking Sehmat still holds on to them.
The protagonist is a young girl who goes ahead in her mission despite her vulnerabilities. How difficult was that to translate cinematicallyIJ
There are layers because she is struggling between her expected roles — there is loyalty to the family, to the father, the country and then to her wedded family. Above all there is loyalty to her own conscience and righteousness. They are all operating at multiple levels. It is not as black and white as it seems. There are moments when she is extremely vulnerable before her loving new husband. She is a young girl and it is probably her first flush of attraction too. Emotionally, she is invested in the relationship. Also, at times even if she doesn’t want to, there might be chances that she is drawn into conflict. She is a human being. There will be emotions that will play and kind of criss-cross with her sense of duty and patriotism.
Do you think as a woman director, you were easily able to touch that core of a woman’s mind, cut through the layersIJ
I would hope so because both me and my writer Bhavani Iyer are women. It is the first time in India that two women have written a script about a woman spy, who is not an action junkie, and a film on whom is eventually directed by a woman.
Otherwise, would it have run the risk of stereotypingIJ
I don’t know but I was very clear. I wouldn’t even say it is a conscious attempt but going against stereotypes is something I have been subconsciously doing for a long time. I am fortunate that people pick it up and associate it with my story-telling or the choice of films I make.
All of your films have found their own niche. Talvar did very well, Filhaal came ahead of its time but did make a mark. So, you are pushing your creative space in an industry which largely talks about returns. How difficult is it to achieve that and hold on to your creativityIJ
It is becoming easier because the producers and studios are realising that content is relevant and the audience is rooting for different stories, big or small. Now, the demarcation is simple, is it a good film or a bad film. That whole art vs commercial, mainstream vs parallel, independent vs crossover is over. I think the audience is whole heartedly accepting good stories.
Has the industry, the big studios and producers who are market-driven, bent the rules for your kind of filmsIJ
Producers should be conscious because they are in a business and are entitled to their money’s worth. So there is a way to make films which are content-driven, which may not have that initial ability to pull the audience for a first day, first show or may not have a star. Then, you work your way backwards. You put a safe number to that film and try and make the film within that number. That is entirely possible because I have done that with both my films.
So, you are talking about smart budgetingIJ
Absolutely, you can do it very creatively and disburse that money very creatively. That is another process that is extremely challenging. It makes you more confident as a director when your film is complete and you know that the pressure is not so much that it is going to break the producer’s back. As a director, you must have that responsibility.
There is a lot of talk about women empowerment and women directors, crew and technicians. Do you think we should stop defining a filmmaker in terms of his/her own genderIJ
I haven’t believed in these discussions for a very long time. Growing up in the industry, I know that filmmakers from Bimal Roy, my father and Shyam Benegal to Sanjay leela Bhansali and Farah Khan, all have demolished stereotypes. The men have made women-oriented films much before and have presented their central characters in flesh and flood and the fullness of things. And Farah Khan, a woman director, has made films with completely commercial male directors’ sensibilities. So, these divides don’t stand but coming to a sense of equality in the commercial sense, where rights and economics are concerned, there is a disparity between what female actors are paid versus their male counterparts. There is also disparity between what a female actor’s film earns versus a male actor’s. One needs to be realistic about it and, therefore, push the envelope with smart planning and execution. My only thing is, it is not a man-woman thing for me. It is human to human. Please respect your fellow humans. Be equal between all human beings regardless of black-white, male-female, rich-poor, educated-uneducated. Gender is very small if you look at the larger picture.
How do you approach your storiesIJ What is your creative process and what kind of real life inputs do you store in your mindIJ
Till Talvar, either by choice or design, there was a very long break. Between Talvar and Raazi, the timeframe was much smaller. Between Raazi and my next film, hopefully, the gap is smaller as well. I like to be involved with every process of my film, right from putting the first word on paper to seeing it release because it keeps me close to my material. My best idea exchange happens when I am collaborating with my screenplay writer, Bhavani. We have long conversations about the story, how it will go, what are the unusual nuances and we make our notes. Then she comes back with sequences and we discuss that and the cycle repeats. She writes in English so once we are done with one draft, I take over for Hindi dialogues. There is a lot that is in that conversation which may not come on paper but it helps me on set because that recall is there.
In terms of research, do you like to travel and feel the context of your source materialIJ
I couldn’t go to Pakistan for Raazi but you need references of what Pakistan of 1971 looked like, how those people dressed and fortunately, the internet is a nice place when it is used correctly. A lot of research went down there. Simple things in the film, like the girl is studying in Delhi and she is called back home to Kashmir, were a challenge. There were no trains to Srinagar then and not many buses either. To make the travel realistic, we had to do a lot of research. We found out about the bus routes and train routes, the mode of travel, the border crossing arrangements...You need to immerse yourself in that research to be able to even write one scene. Then there is really no ready reference on RAW modules for training women spies in the 1970s amid heightened tensions. So yes, I am big on research.
I do take creative breaks, spend time and catch up with my husband, my son and my family. If possible, take a vacation because replenishing the mind and restoring the creative juices is very important. Otherwise, you will start replicating.
How much of these creative discussions do you have with your parentsIJ
My mother (acting legend Rakhi) watches my film only when it is completed and discusses nothing before that. As for my father (Gulzar), I discuss the subject of the film first and he gives me his point of view. We may agree or disagree. Then, when I am done with the first draft of the film, I share it with him. He has his own pointers and if I agree, I take them. If I disagree, I explain why. Then he gets to see the first cut and the final cut afterwards. Now he has stopped making films and gone back to his first love, which is writing. As filmmakers, our sensibilities and craft are different, but that’s why bouncing off ideas becomes a very enriching experience.
You haven’t thought of casting your mother in your filmsIJ
None of my films have had a role for her and I don’t want to force-fit her just because she is my mother. Besides, she is close to 70 and has worked for 50 years of her life. It is not that she has withdrawn, even professionals retire at the age of 60. She has done a Bengali film recently and she is dubbing for it in Hindi right now in Kolkata as we speak. She looks after my son when I am travelling. If I do come across a story which is perfect for her and will do justice to her as an actor, I won’t think twice.
What is your take on Indian films going to newer markets. How is this exposure going to change the trajectory of Indian filmsIJ
It definitely opens up another revenue stream for a film. Now, what kind of films these markets pick up, content-driven, entertaining or star-driven, will be decided by the market. But at least there is a new possibility.
What’s the status of your next filmIJ
I am working on the life of Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw so I am putting that together. That again involves a lot of research. But since it is a real, human story, I have got drawn to it.