Author John Raslton Saul finds India fantastic and full of complexities. Before flying to Jaipur literature Festival, the Canadian writer spoke to Karan Bhardwaj and shared why Asia is looked at by surprise across the globe
In 2003, Time magazine called him “prophet”. A decade later, we shared his light. John Ralston Saul, the eminent Canadian author, shared his views on globalisation, economic crises and rise of Asian nations. What he predicted two decades back, has now become a reality of the evolving world. The gentleman bounces back at every question like a curious kid. However, his thoughts are balanced. He is the President of PEN International (global association of writers) and widely known for his essays and commentaries on individualism, citizenship and public good. He is best known for his philosophical trilogy — Voltaire’s Bastards, The Doubter’s Companion and The Unconscious Civilization. Penguin India published Saul’s first novel after 15 years, Dark Diversions: A Traveller’s Tale, a picaresque novel about the life of modern nouveaux riches.
Excerpts from an interview.
How are you finding IndiaIJ
My last visit was five years ago. I still don’t know India very well. But I am fascinated by its multilingualism, complexity and federal structure. There’s lot of energy generated here, from the top down not from the bottom up. I am interested in India as a writer and as the President of PEN. China is important but India is more fascinating since it is complicated.
How do you look at the rise of Asia, led by China and IndiaIJ
Around 1700, economy methods, wealth creation or economy in Asia, were very important. Then there was a rise of Western empire which was short lived. So they used arms to control the economics. But now, Asian influence is up again, and it is already there more than 50 per cent. Twenty years from now, people would say that there was a small blip in the decline of Asia, and then it came back, led by India and China. Interestingly, the rise of these nations was a surprise for experts who conceived the idea of globalisation after things went wrong in the West. They came up with second rate revamped idea of 19th century “English” economics, and tried to play a new role. But it didn’t work in their interest. They failed to realise that both the nations have large internal markets and would begin by selling exports, rather than buying imports first.
Would the world’s response to economic slowdown have been differentIJ
The problem is that you didn’t adopt ideas, which are available, when it was not working. I remember I addressed the issue in 1999 in Sydney in front of a strong audience which was live on national TV. I had met head of States’ banks and Australian bank, and they told me that we were heading towards global crisis but they couldn’t say it on the record. I believe that globalisation is virtually over. We are heading into a vacuum. We have less time to tackle issues. We could have avoided the meltdown.
They chose austerity as one of the tools to beat the recession. Isn’t it strangeIJ
There is no example in history where austerity took people out of crisis. There should be change in leadership. The failure has led to rise in populism. That’s not an answer to any problem. But that’s sign of anger. They need to stop that, it’s just about growth or industrial sector. These are all very old-fashioned things. We need to be cooperative, inclusive of ideas of sustainability.
What is the importance of aboriginal philosophy and indigenous knowledge in a changing worldIJ
A great deal of what we have been doing is based on fairly narrow interpretation of rationality. How you want to run the society is a limited approach. Human beings are placed at a superior position and everything is at their command. Secondly, people are driven by self interests. Then, there is an attitude in societies where you don’t take people absolutely into account. The other day, the former head of European Bank and new head of Canadian state bank spoke for half an hour on the present crisis in public. At no point, they mentioned words like ‘citizen’, ‘person’ or ‘individual’. It’s a fiery. So are they away from the realities of people living inside and not the top of the worldIJ The West is driving the world on a linear idea. Indigenous ideas are more circular, they relate more to how human beings are part of the place. But by saying that I don’t mean we should be abandoning electricity and all modern means. What was considered old-fashioned is now important. Had we followed indigenous theories, we would have negotiated with global warming differently.
Your latest novel Dark Diversions (Penguin India) came up after two decades. You don’t have interest in fictional novelsIJ
For me, novels are essentially true. There is a level of truth in them which frightens people. There are so many novels coming up because it’s an appropriate way to get the truth out, which is tough in non-fiction, because they are too specific. When I wrote my first novel, The Birds of Prey, which talked about a military general, I faced a strange experience. At the launch of it, a guy walked up to me and said I scandalised his father! I didn’t know who his father wasIJ Was he a general, was he like thatIJ
Are the characters sketched in the book real people masquerading in fictional formatIJ
I have been writing about the topic for a long time. My previous books like Voltaire’s Bastards, The Unconscious Civilization and The Collapse of Globalism have touched the issue. Dark Diversions follows a print journalist as he intrudes the world for political stories. There’s a view of the privileged lives of broken-hearted bluebloods and despotic demigods seen through the eyes of an astute, initially anonymous narrator. It’s about rich people, their love, confusions, money and how they spend it. It’s a black comedy.
What are the PEN activities in IndiaIJ
It was a gaping hole not to have a strong centre in Delhi. PEN has an important role in India. There is a major question here about the languages as there are too many. Are they being supported or arte there enough translations and publicationsIJ
How do you look at the freedom of expression being curbed in many countries especially ChinaIJ
We led an aggressive campaign in China and took government by surprise. They thought they would handle it internally and people wouldn’t care since a lot of money was at stake. What they are discovering is that people are really annoyed and are part of approach which is taken seriously elsewhere in the world. They are isolated. They are arresting the people they need. They arrest writers, journalists who speak against corruption.
And is there a rise of social mediaIJ Are we fast becoming narcissists, intolerant and revisionistIJ
There is a massive change in technology. There will be a moment when it will stabilise, let’s say 20 years from now. Twitter would go, something else will come. The problem is that the freedom of speech and expressions and role of responsibility don’t go hand in hand. It cannot be solved by censorship. It would give rise to authoritarians or produce more violence. We have to invent more respectable ways of solving problems.