ATUL KOCHHAR decided to change the tide and continue to push out tradition and do it in a slightly more modern way. The Michellin-starrer international chef discusses his culinary style with Khushbu Kirti
I had heard a lot about Chef Atul Kochhar, the pioneering twice Michelin-starred chef from Jamshedpur who had succeeded to make a name for himself internationally. However, never had the chance to have a heart-to-heart with him, until recently. As the renowned chef graced SAGA, Gurgaon, with his presence, I was enthralled by the personalised hosting experience designed by him.
Read on for excerpts from the most honest conversation ever:
You're one of the first two Indian chefs to receive a Michelin star. And have so many successfully running shows. How has the journey been?
So I became one of the first two chefs to get a Michelin star. And that's been an incredible journey, to be honest. Vineet and I were great friends at that time. We, kind of, always compared notes. I would say that, you know, that was a time when we were a bunch of chefs like Giorgio Locatelli and Jacques Christophe Novelli, Chef Marco Pierre White. They were the leaders. They were the luminaries of the culinary world in London.
I used to look up to them and I decided that time has come that we change the tide and continue to push out tradition, but do it in a slightly more modern way. Because do we have to have a 3000 year old tradition of eating as well? Fine. We love our tradition. We love our culture. And we will always, always will be known by that. But do we have to continue to dwell in the past? And that's when we started changing and modernising the food and thinking how we can lighten the food, how we can make it slightly crispier, and so on. I think, that journey taught us a lot. There were failures on the way but as time has gone by, what I've learned over the years is to appreciate the association, appreciate the people you work with and the team that carries you. You are nobody without them. People might think, ‘Oh, Atul Kochar has achieved that’ but put me alone in that room, I doubt I'll achieve anything without the people who have helped me to be where I am. So, I always recognise my achievements through my team, or teams, I should say. And, I'm grateful for what I have and what I've been given. The opportunity I've been given, it comes with huge responsibility. You cannot be callous about it.
What do you find, while setting chefs' tables outside and in India, the kind of difference in people's palette and how has that evolved?
So, every place has its own food ethos. Whether you do it in India, and within India, ‘one size fits all’ doesn't work. Go to Milan, go to Madrid, London, New York, you would have to vary the ingredients, the depth of cooking, and in our cases, understand how much strength of the spice that particular community can take. And, I think that's the genius of an Indian cook — to see that, without compromising the flavour and still earning well. That's very important — understanding the market and understanding your cuisine. That's the tightrope walk we have to do all the time.
So who could tell you better than me? I had restaurants in Dubai, in Madrid and London, and it was challenging, even frustrating at times. But, it's very rewarding when you get it right. It's very hard. It's very hard to just come out of one place and go to another kitchen and say, okay, game changes today. It's a matter of understanding your clientele. And, I think now that I'm in a place like Delhi, within Delhi, there are subgroups. People who would come from North Delhi might perceive the food very differently than the people from South Delhi.This is how it is and your location, kind of, dictates it all.
What kind of changes have you noticed in the Indian palette?
So, one thing about the Indian palate is we are extremely traditional. I won't say it's not criticism, but I just want to express it in the sense that we have our own culture and our own food. I think that goes above anything. You would go for the best sushi and you can go for the best risotto. But, any day, you will settle for a good daal-chawal, or rajma chawal or kadi chawal or khichdi, so that love, I think, is beyond any words. But, we are constantly learning.
You know, I left this country 30 years ago, and I've been coming back quite often because my family still lives here. What I've seen there's a massive change in people's perception. Now, standalone restaurants are way more posh than the restaurants in the five star hotel. Things are improving.
What is your favourite cuisine and why?
I would say my favourite cuisine outside of India is Thai. And I love Thai food because it has got the spices. It has stir fries. It has got the noodles, rice, curries. I think they have humungous flavours and so much to learn from. I also love that.
What changes would you like to bring in in the food industry?
So I immediately do not have 10 commandments for our Indian food industry but what I say is, it's an evolution process, and it's often driven by demand — demand from the clientele — and what we can get in the market. There was a time when India was quite a narrow country when it came to what beverage you could have in your bar. But now, today, you can have anything in anything you want. It's opened up so much, the creativity has gone through the roof. I bet that some of the bartenders who have never stepped outside this country ever might be world leaders tomorrow, because the way they are creating and are making cocktails is just out of this world.
I know it's shamelessly promoting my own restaurant SAGA, but I'm mesmerised. I'm kind of in awe, in love with what these young bartenders are doing here. This is the first time I've come back. I've not been here since my restaurant opened and I spent more time sitting at the bar looking at what they're doing than in my kitchen. Not that I want to get drunk. I'm just learning how they're doing things.
So going back, that is what we need. Running a hospitality business is one of the most difficult businesses in the world. You got to understand each and every valve, every lever. You have to be so human that you have to understand the psychology of the people you work with, the people you cater for and the people you deal with. One would have to just constantly grow and keep making it better.
You have opened a lot of award winning restaurants, any tips for the budding entrepreneurs opening their eateries.
I think having a crystal clear concept is the most important thing. You've got to know what you want and where you want to go to. Destination is important but so is the journey in the restaurant trade, especially how stylised you can have this journey entirely depends on you. When you start realising your limitations of what you can or cannot do, you portray them very clearly but still in a very creative manner. And explain that through your offering, that is, food, and your drinks. People will appreciate what you do and remain true to your ethos. Things will go wrong, it's a patience game. These businesses don't have an overnight but if you remain true to it, you will turn the tide and it will work for you. Your customers will tell you very clearly if you're going wrong, they're very vocal about it. And if you don't listen to that, then you'll miss that red light and you're definitely going to get a ticket.
What have the challenges been for chefs post-Covid and how have you battled with the same?
Our world has been destroyed. One day we were trading absolutely fine, looking at fantastic seasons to start and open many more places. And then, next week we were told, ‘sorry, stay home and shut down the places you have and you're not allowed to come up with anything new’. So, that's been very difficult. This is an industry that works on credit. We take ingredients from our suppliers on credit. We make those ingredients into a product, we sell it to the customer and get the money and then we pay everybody back so that it goes up and goes down. So, when the money is paid to us, we retain the taxes, we pay the staff and we pay the suppliers and if there is anything left, then we pay ourselves, which often is the case. We don't do it for money. We do it for the love of it. We love food, we love people. This is our passion. This is what drives us.
So, suddenly we were in a lot of debt. We had no money to pay back. In my case, you know, I live in the UK, so I had certain help from my government. But sadly, in India, there was no help. People have to sell their homes, cars and their jewellery, to merely sustain themselves. My heart goes out to them. I feel like crying for them. It wasn't fair and was nobody's fault. I am not blaming or bashing the government or the system here. This is a very large country with large amount of problems. A lot of our people have bounced back and I'm so happy to see that. But I know we have a lot of businesses that have perished, as well.
What is your opinion on vegan food?
I think it's a serious revolution and there are a lot of people seriously into it. They believe that that's good for the system and their diet. And for some people it's some medical reason that they need to be on vegan food. I have no problem with that. I like it, you know, just allows me to be a little bit more creative and pushes the challenges a little higher for me. And I love it. If that's what people want, I'll give it to them. I have been doing vegan menus for, I would say good. 10-12 years now, so it doesn't bother me at all.