Your play Mera Woh Matlab Nai Tha is set in Delhi and yet it became the last destination of your ongoing tour. WhyIJ
We wanted to open it in Kamani Auditorium and also the play deals with my nostalgia of being around Mandi House, Bhagwan Das Road, National School of Drama, Shri Ram Centre, et al. After we opened the play, we had to go on a two-month tour to America.
It felt great to be here and also to do a play which is set in Delhi. I think the audience has a great time because even though the play is about my and Neena’s (Gupta) character, it is also about first love, laughter, sadness, nostalgia and pain which I think all of us go through. People see glimpses of their life being performed on stage. And the strange thing was that Neena is from Chandni Chowk and the story about these two people in love starts from Chandni Chowk. Rakesh Bedi (director) is from Delhi and I’ve also spent four important years of my life here as a NSD student.
The play is about the delicacy of a relationship looked back at in a changing world. In today's digital society, how do you think such plays can connect us to the core of emotionsIJ
No matter how much we may advance in our thought process but at the core, we deal with emotions that are there. Those nine emotions will have to be experienced. luckily, the body and mind are not as mechanical as the applications or appliances we use.
Anybody who has fallen in love once will identify with this play. I always want to perform plays which people can relate with.
Also, closure is something which we don’t give to a lot of relationships and that is the most important thing. We fall in love and again fall in love. It's not like you fall in love once and life stops. We keep falling in love because it also gives us a sense of self-worth.
Hema Roy (Neena’s character) and my character were madly in love and were about to get married but things did not work out and they did not have a closure. After 35 years, when she decides to leave the country and settle with her daughter in london, she wants to speak to this person about what had happened. Also, how in that journey of two days during their early morning meetings in lodhi Garden, they talk about their life and we discover that we do live our own lives but do not know what happened to the other person. As a production house (Actor Prepares), we wanted to make this into a spectacular and a modern production so we also shot a few portions on film which are projected on a screen as flashbacks. We were very lucky that Neeraj Pandey, who is a director and also a friend, decided to direct these portions for us.
It is a very rich production in a sense that it does not undermine the sensibility of an audience. It is not only rich in content but is also eye-pleasing. It is a brilliantly written play and some of the lines are really amazing. Identification is also on of the most important thing. You may make a spectacular play with the latest digital effects et al., but that play stays with you only while it’s on. This play stays with people for a week or at least ten days because it makes them go back to their lives. Whether you are 18 or 80, you started with somebody. It made think of my first relationship and what she must be doing. In today’s time, you have Facebook and you can find out what that person is doing. Also, the initial euphoria of love, expectations, jealousy and possessiveness have died down. You’ve lived your life and you meet as two people who are now worldly-wise and don’t easily feel jealous or insecure.
Did you choose the story for theatre because it is more thought-provokingIJ
It absolutely is. The only problem with theatre is that it does not reach a larger audience as cinema does. But direct confrontation or interaction with the audiences is much more effective. We have also become less communicative and that’s why we, at times, also think on behalf of the other person. We are having conversations with the other person and the dialogues are also written by us from the other person’s point of view.
Theatre is also much more reflective. There is a very beautiful line in the play where the two laugh about something and my character says ‘Kya din the woh, aaj bhi un dino ko yaad karta hoon toh kuch teer se chubhte hain’ (When I think of those days today, they pierce me like an arrow) to which Neena’s character asks why and I respond with one of my favourite lines ‘Kyunki yaad karne par beeta hua sukh bhi dukh hi deta hai’ (Even remembering happiness breeds melancholy).
In fact, when four years back I met Rakesh in Manali and told him that I was looking for a new play, he told me he’d written one and can narrate it to me. I asked him what is it calledIJ He responded with Mera Woh Matlab Nai Tha and I immediately said that I already like 90 per cent of it. Because I realised that this line is mostly used by men because they are always beating around the bush and would never say what they need to say. Women won’t use this often because they know what they want to say. I thought it was a very cheeky and real title and, of course, when he read out the play to me, I thought it was phenomenal. After a very long time, an original play has come up. Since we were also the producers of the play, we all worked on it, developed it and thus the production grew together.
Also, we’ve done it at a stage where all three of us are a little confident about ourselves. We don’t want to prove anything to the world but just do good work.
We get to hear a lot of theatre producers say that there are takers in big cities and the demand is always for comedy...
I don’t blame people because they come to get entertained. The same goes for cinema. You don’t want to go and see the misery. Sometimes theatre tends to go into the darker side of human relationships or behaviour. But this is a great mixture of humour and sometimes with humour you can convey much more serious things. People also have to first like it. I also feel that it is very important for the play to commercially do well for theatre to flourish. The three of us also have certain amount of sensibility that we will not do something which is shallow. In that case, Mera Who Matlab Nai Tha is a production which is not only serious but also has its fun moments. Theatre should be like life because in life we laugh and at the same time, we would cry or get angry. Every playwright has written a play in a certain frame of mind. The play will make you go through various emotions.
So as a producer, you don't feel the pressure to make a show runIJ
I do theatre for joy. I like to do plays which can be popular and at the same time don’t question the aesthetic sense of the audience. But I’ve dealt with my life and career in a certain manner, I would like to be that responsible person and an actor to not underestimate my audience or give them cheap thrills.
Do you also agree with the notion that theatre can only be done in metropolitan citiesIJ
That is not true at all. There are no small cities left in today’s time. When I used to live in Shimla, it was a small town but now it is an over-crowded, concrete jungle. Smaller towns are much more forward, communicative and we’ve become a small village now. We have great audiences in smaller places and we want to explore that. The smaller audiences, at times, have much more etiquettes than those in the metropolitan cities. Here people come to watch plays because it is fashionable. Smaller towns are majorly on our agenda.
You have been an alumni of NSD and headed it as well. Where do you see NSD headed todayIJ
Government institutions need blood transfusion. There are certain professions like dance, singing, performing arts, which need dedication rather than demand for equal rights. If you want to be extraordinary, you have to do a little extra.
It also happens that when we go to our old school or college, we would always feel that our time was much better because our memories of that time are stronger. We go as an outsider to see the place and when we were there, we are part of it. But certainly NSD needs to market themselves. You cannot be in 2015 and think what you were doing in 1967 is the right way of going about things. They need to cultivate writers since we don’t have very good writers. There are no original plays. It has fallen into a trap of monotony. look at the talent it produced — from Manohar Singh, Sulekha Singh, Om Puri, to Naseeruddin Shah and even till our time when Ebrahim Alkazi (former NSD director) was there. You need a person who you can respect as the director of the institution because he is involved in day-to-day functioning and he is the best teacher. He has to bring in the discipline. No art form can function without discipline. I run an acting school where people in the beginning would feel they can come to class whenever with their mobiles and a cup of tea. But we run the school as a Gurukul from 8:30 am to 6:30 pm where you can’t use your mobiles or come in late. That is the only way to learn. When I opened my drama school, I was still the chairman of NSD but I left it thinking it was a clash of interest. I wanted to run my school the way Alkazi did so we are all mini-Alkazis. Sometimes, when I would pick the litter in front of the students, it would remind me of him because he used to do that and it was the best way to embarrass us. Theatre is not just about speaking dialogues, you need to have your aesthetic sense at its peak.
It has also become a manufacturing house for talent which straightaway goes to TV production houses...
The stereotypes have arrived and we must break it. People would say that if a person is carrying a jute bag and has a beard then he must be from Mandi House. We have to come out of that. I also want to say that even if today Anupam Kher does a bad play, the audience may come for one or two shows, but it cannot be successful if the play is not good.
How do you think talent has evolved over the yearsIJ Your generation was more into literature and came with a certain understanding. How would you rate students todayIJ
I think people now are more talented because they are much more aware. Also, today’s generation is more smarter than us. They come across as irreverent but they are far more honest than us. They will say it on your face if they don’t like something. We had the post and pre-Independence blues and our parents taught us to be diplomatic. I feel the future of this country is very bright because the youth is very right. When they come, they come with a certain confidence which we had to build. They are already confident and can talk to you straightaway. Today, it is very easy to get information but information turns into knowledge only by going through life.
You mentioned Alkazi and that he was such a luminous head of NSD. A lot of institutions need such people. Unfortunately, the FTII chairman’s appointment says otherwise...
I have made it very clear about the appointment of Gajendra Chauhan that he was absolutely the wrong choice for an institution like that. They shouldn't have appointed him and if there were protests about it, then they should’ve taken that into consideration. The point is when I take my chairman’s name, you’ll think of somebody from Indian cinema if not the world cinema.
My only issue was that the strike should’ve finished earlier because the loss is of the students. The chairman is not teaching nor is he the administrative head, plus they had the support of the entire country. After five-seven days, they should’ve changed the way of protest but attended their classes since their parents have really gone out of their way to pay for their courses.
What is your take on the intellectual discourse in the country about freedom of expressionIJ Why this categorisation as left-leaning or rightist instead of a pragmatic, healthy debateIJ
Unfortunately, what has happened is that politics has gone into intellectualism as well.
I believe that what applies to my home also applies to my country. I cannot have double-standards. If tomorrow you have a problem at home or one of your family member is unhappy because he thinks the atmosphere is intolerant so he can go to the head of the family or any other member and tell them that there is a problem which needs to be discussed. If that member says I don't want to speak with you, then you have a reason to walk out of the house but if you walk out of the house without discussing then you are questioning the agenda of the people.
These people (artists who returned their awards) are very eminent but they should’ve approached the Prime Minister saying that we think there is total mayhem or intolerance in the country and we want to talk to you about it. If he said no then they should’ve returned their award but none of them approached.
The biggest example is Munawwar Rana (poet). Rana said on TV that if the PM would like to meet me then he’d like to meet him too. When we went to meet the Prime Minister, we were shocked when he told us that he saw that on TV and sent a PMO official to ask Rana to meet. The time had been fixed but he refused to come. That is also a little disturbing.
look at Anish Kapoor (British-Indian sculptor who said India is being ruled by ‘Hindu Taliban’). During a news show I told him that you don't even live in this country and have taken refuge outside and you're talking about intolerance in IndiaIJ Why I got upset and angry was because Arundhati Roy goes all over the world and only talks about horrible things in India and when it comes to returning the award because of intolerance in the country, she returns her Best Screenplay award and does not return her international Man Booker Prize citing intolerance in Syria. My power is that I see through their lies and my power is that I am sticking to the truth. My grandfather used to say that when you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember it. They can have their interpretations that I went on a march because the BJP sent me or my wife is from BJP, that is the way they console themselves. People who are pretending to be tolerant are most intolerant. Returning an award is an act of intolerance in itself. The President told us that the award is not given by the Government, it is given by the nation.
photos Pankaj Kumar