External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj on Monday denied any flip-flop in India’s recent engagement with Pakistan, saying there is a “need to bridge the gulf” with the neighbouring country for peace and stability in the region. She said India would strive to have a continuous dialogue process despite provocations by “saboteurs”, an apparent reference to terror groups.
Sushma, who sought the support of Parliament in the latest initiative with Pakistan while briefing members on her recent visit, made suo motu statements in both the lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha and answered questions posed by members in the lower House.
Sushma rejected charges of vacillation levelled by Opposition parties and said in the latest arrangement, the level of talks on terror has been raised as this issue will now be dealt with by the National Security Advisers (NSAs) instead of Foreign Secretaries as was the case earlier.
The fact that NSAs of India and Pakistan met in Bangkok without any publicity does not mean there was any third country’s involvement but it was only to take forward the Ufa process as such a meeting could not take place in New Delhi as “you all know”, she told the lok Sabha.
Several members wanted to know whether Pakistan could be trusted, particularly since history showed that dialogue has been accompanied by terror attacks from Pakistan.
“Nothing has changed on the ground. Because we had said that terror and talks cannot go together. So at Ufa, we said that NSAs will talk on terrorism,” she said when asked what had changed since September when NSA-level talks could not take place after Pakistan insisted that Kashmir should be discussed at the meet.
“Whenever talks happen, that is based on trust....There is a need to bridge the gulf (with Pakistan),” Sushma said, adding progress in dialogue is necessary for peace.
Underlining that the only way forward is through dialogue, she said Prime Minister Narendra Modi had initiated the efforts to reach out to Pakistan not just in Ufa but even before he took oath on May 26 last year when he invited Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif for his swearing-in ceremony.
To demands by some members for assurance that the dialogue process will be “uninterruptable”, she said, “It never works like that. We would like not to get provoked by the saboteurs, who want to stall the dialogue somehow, and will try to find a way forward through dialogue. This will be our intent.”
When some members accused the Government of a “flip-flop” policy on Pakistan, she said it was not the “correct definition” as stopping and re-starting a dialogue process is “part of diplomacy”.
“Starting talks, stopping and then again starting talks does not mean a flip-flop... It is not the correct definition. It is part of diplomacy that talks happen, then stop and then happen again,” the External Affairs Minister said.
“Talks have started in a very good atmosphere. If India-Pakistan relations improve, there will be improvement in the region,” she said.
Sushma, who read out her statement in Rajya Sabha amid the din created by Congress members over an incident in Punjab, said: “The new dialogue, we sincerely hope, marks a new beginning also for peace and development in the whole region.”
At the same time, there was also a “sharp awareness” that principal obstacles to the growth of ties, especially terrorism, would have to be clearly and directly addressed, said Sushma.
The Comprehensive Bilateral Dialogue with Pakistan will begin with the objective of “removing hurdles in the path of a constructive engagement by addressing issues of concern,” she said.
Sushma said in her talks with Sharif and Pakistan Foreign Minister Sartaj Aziz in Islamabad, which were held in the backdrop of the “positive development” of the meeting between the two Prime Ministers in Paris and the NSAs in Bangkok, the “two sides condemned terrorism and resolved to cooperate to eliminate this menace.”
“There we dwelt on the need for Pakistan to expedite the Mumbai terrorist attacks trial. The Indian side was assured of the steps being taken to expedite its early conclusion,” she said.
She rejected the contention of AIMIM member in lok Sabha Asaduddin Owaisi that the Government had made a “clumsy climb-down” even though he welcomed a re-start of dialogue, saying that as per the commitment in Ufa, that NSA-level talks would have to take place first, the “NSA-level talks happened first and then I went to Islamabad.”
Sushma said the Foreign Secretaries of the two countries will decide on the “pillars” of the dialogue which will include Sir Creek, Siachen, Tulbul Navigation as well as trade and transit and religious tourism.
To questions by some members as to why Kashmir was discussed at the meeting of NSAs, Swaraj referred to the joint statement issued after the Bangkok meeting in which it was mentioned in the context of Kashmir “The State most directly affected by terrorism and cross-border firing”.
She added: “Terrorism in J&K, and violation of line of Control (loC) were discussed in Bangkok because that was a NSA-level talk. In Ufa we decided NSAs will talk on all issues related to terrorism. No political level talks on J&K happened. They talked only terrorism.”
Rejecting any role for any other country, Sushma said: “When we have decided that we will not accept third country intervention, third person intervention then talks will have to happen between the two countries (India and Pakistan).”
To questions raised by some members of NSAs meeting in Bangkok, she said it does not mean involvement of a third country in the Indo-Pak dialogue. She said: “If Bangkok was a third country, then in Ufa, did Russia become a partyIJ In Paris, did France become third party participation in talksIJ Third party involvement is when there is a third party involved in talks not where the talks take place.”
As many as 13 members from various parties in lS made their observations on her speech. While welcoming the initiation of the dialogue process, many of them cautioned Sushma not to trust Pakistan.
Bhartruhari Mahtab of BJD referred to the 26/11 incident and the lingering case in Pakistan. Echoing similar views, Vinayak Raut (Shiv Sena) said: “Pakistan has a history of stabbing in the back. We should be wary of trusting Pakistan and remain alert.”
Welcoming the decision to have talks, PDP leader Mehbooba Mufti said: “When relations between the two countries turn sour, its people of J&K who suffer the maximum”. She said former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee had taken steps to better relations between the two countries and between 2003 to 2008 there was ceasefire along the border. She wanted to know if some more cross-loC confidence-building measures were in the offing.
Sushma replied to members’ concern saying: “Whenever talks happen, that is based on trust... There is a need to bridge the gulf (with Pakistan)”.