A cloudburst can paralyse a megacity like Delhi, a cyclone can wreak catastrophe in Mumbai, that also has a nuclear facility, and an epic flood can decapacitate Kolkata anytime. All threats posed by climate change are no more in the future. We’re in the middle of the world’s biggest climate risks. Amitav Ghosh tells ANANYA BORGOHAIN how the macabre is no longer so abstract
You start your book, The Great Derangement: Climate Change and the Unthinkable (Penguin Random House) with a gripping account of a very rare tornado at Maurice Nagar (at Delhi University’s north campus) that you survived way back on March 17, 1978. A tornado here is unimaginable for most Delhiites. Although you do mention that the tornado, that killed 30 people and wounded 700, might not have been directly triggered by the kind of climate change crisis that we are struggling with today, how safe are we right now — more so, in DelhiIJ
All threats associated with climate change that we talk about are no longer in the future — it’s happening right now as we speak. You may remember, very recently, Delhi’s temperature rose to 49 degrees, that was a cry for help. Not just in Delhi, the entire country is right in the middle of this crisis. For instance, look at the droughts across India. Of course, there have been droughts earlier too but now, all of them have some sort of climate change correlation. These concerns should be beyond compromise. The tornado I talk about was the first to hit Delhi in Delhi’s recorded meteorological history and was extremely rare. Now, almost 40 years later, nobody knows what else might happen in the city, or the world.
And then there are the man-made agents of climate degeneration, such as air pollution. All landfill sites in Delhi are causing spontaneous fires due to high temperature and they have also exhausted their capacity 10 years ago.
Absolutely, we are in a very anxious phase. In Delhi, I see two problems. One, there’s a gradual dwindling of water supply; although that could also be attributed to human misuse as so much water is wasted every day. Other than that, here the precipitation or rainfall events will become unpredictable. If there’s a cloudburst in Delhi, like the one in Chennai last year, the city will be paralysed.
Kolkata is at an extreme risk from climate change, which once made you suggest to your mother to leave the family home there and move base elsewhere. Which place did you have in mind where one could move to, to escape the climate crisisIJ
There is no safe haven anywhere, actually. I read in a World Bank report that Kolkata is one of the global megacities that is most at risk from issues related to climate change. I tried to convince my mother to leave the city and she thought I had lost my mind; to leave home, roots, and all the memories because of a World Bank report! However, there is no place in particular that I could think of to go to for escaping a climate catastrophe.
Most people across the world will have the same reaction — they will choose to hold on to their homes and sentiments attached to it instead of shifting base because of a change in climate. Isn’t that because instead of treating climate and weather scientifically (and more pragmatically), we have actually romanticised these conceptsIJ
Yes, we think of the wind, rain, snow, oceans and mountains as poetically grand and aesthetic. They are the epitome of beauty, but we don’t realise how devastating nature’s fury could be.
Is that why you argue that literary fiction has been elusive towards the issueIJ
Yes, either they have been romanticised as agents of extreme beauty or narrated to express macabre events and destruction. Climate change in all its pragmatism is an underused theme in literature. literary novelists such as Margaret Atwood, JG Ballard, Doris lessing, and Ian McEwan have dealt with environmental changes, but there are very few names like them. More so, in fiction, I mean. Most accounts of climate change are found in non-fiction.
In that sense, is this work then an attack against the age of Enlightenment (the age of intellect and individuality in Europe in the 17th Century)IJ An interesting phrase you have used in the book is, “European Enlightenment’s hubris in relation to the earth and its resources…” Why hubrisIJ
I certainly think that in retrospect, the age of European Enlightenment created a state of mind out of which these dangers became inconceivable and they became things that people did not think about. For example, the ocean cannot always be associated with tranquility. But what happened during Enlightenment and early modernity was not specific to Europe. There were similar trends in other places as well. For instance, I do admire the wonderful view of the ocean in Mumbai, but that does not mean that I ignore the fact that Arabian Sea is where cyclonic activity is likely to increase. like I write in the book, Mumbai’s northern suburbs had unprecedented rainfall for 14 hours in 2005 and 2.5 million people were under water. Roads and rail tracks were submerged and this is a city where on an average day, its suburban railway network transports 6.6 million people. So, the sea can also be dangerous.
Mumbai is indeed a crucial part of the book.
I mention in the book that cyclones that have occurred on the west coast of India have travelled up in a north-easterly track from the southern quadrant of the Arabian Sea. South Mumbai, in this case, is prone to such disasters. That is also where important civic and national institutions are located. And let’s not forget, Mumbai also has a nuclear facility, the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre at Trombay. At Tarapur, 94 kilometres from the city, is India’s largest nuclear power station.
On the other hand, Maharashtra already faces drought problems. Production of sugarcane there consumes so much water whereas in fact, it’s a water-intensive crop growing in a water-deficient State.
Cyclonic activity in the Arabian Sea is likely to increase by 46 per cent by the next century, reportedly. In most megacities, disaster management concentrates on post-disaster response. But what would happen if a major storm with, say, 240 kmph or higher wind speed happens in the cityIJ I have also written that with the tall buildings with glass windows and the numerous informal settlements with roofs made of metal sheets and corrugated iron, it wouldn’t just be a cyclone but also flying debris.
What can Mumbai do to prepare for such disastersIJ
A super storm in Mumbai can raise about 40-feet-high wave into the city. It would be a catastrophe beyond imagination. Mumbai needs urgent emergency measures. I mention that there has to be a warning period of several days for, say, a cyclone. Conditions could be efficiently tracked and monitored. Subsequently, care should be taken for evacuation. It’s crucial, because in places like Mumbai, New Orleans (where Hurricane Katrina hit) or New York (Hurricane Sandy), evacuation is a daunting task.
You also suggest that as far as construction lobbyists are concerned, property value in Mumbai will decline if people are made aware of the dangerous situation the city is in. Also, after the deluge of 2005 (and maybe the 26/11 attacks too), people are more resilient and think that they can survive an adversity. Are they being subconsciously ignorantIJ
I won't say they are ignorant. look at it this way: I tell you there's a catastrophe knocking at your door and you need to evacuate and flee the city right away. Where would you leave everything and go overnightIJ Not just India, but we saw it during Typhoon Haiyan in Philippines and Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. So, people would rather face the risk because that's easier than evacuating at a short notice.
Did we inherit the crises related to climate change from British imperialismIJ
We didn’t inherit the climate crisis from British imperialism but certain factors account for it. For instance, so many people who can afford it in Delhi would like to have a lawn or a garden at home. Now they require a lot of water and this is a water-deficient area. This is a colonial desire and thus, in many ways, we come to replicate imperial influences.
How is this problem culturalIJ
It's cultural on multiple levels. In order to create some sort of climate resilience, we have to change patterns of cropping, think of different foods for consumption. For example, historically Indians ate a lot of millet - ragi, bajra, jowar - which needed very little water to cultivate and were delicious too. But now these crops are hard to find because people don't consume them much as now the trend is to consume refined wheat, which isn't too nutritious and requires more water.
Also, greenhouse gas emissions are driven by patterns of consumption. For example, people can make do with one car but they find having two more convenient.
Economists predict that in a few decades, the world economy would be led by Asian countries such as India, China, Japan and Indonesia. What is the status of climate change in ChinaIJ
China, which has a larger population living by the sea, is facing a major hydrological problem. Particularly, there's the dwindling Himalayan glacier, especially in the Tibet area, that is going to be a major threat for China as for India. But I must say, China is more cognisant and responsive to these issues. We have also become more efficient in handling such crises now. Recently there was a cyclone in China and they evacuated millions of people very quickly. India's east coast is also prone to cyclones and luckily evacuation is now prompt there as well.
Where does technology feature in this scenarioIJ
It's a double-edged sword. It can be both destructive and constructive. If you think technology could help us out of this situation, in many ways we have reached here because of technology too.
What issues do you have against the Paris Agreement for climate change 2016, besides its jargon-filled languageIJ
Since the climate change negotiations began years ago, there were certain points everybody had read out, like polluters would acknowledge their responsibility, understand the duty to help those who are more severely affected by climate change, and so the issue of justice will be addressed. All these have been negated in the Paris Agreement. There is only one reference to climate justice, and essentially, that reference actually disowns the essence of climate justice. All historic responsibilities have been dissolved. It's an exclusivist agreement that serves American interests.On the other hand, Pope Francis's encyclical call for a discourse on climate change is much more human and reader-friendly.
A pertinent concern you express is a dearth of literary fiction that deals with climate change. Now that your book has released and you are getting readers' responses, have you found the answers to your own questionsIJ
Tell you what, if I had an answer to the question of how to write about climate change, it would be a secret!
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